Too Much “Hot Air”
Yours truly feels this cannot be allowed to slip by, under the radar. One Ed Morrissey may know quite a bit regarding other subjects. However, on this one frankly, he is, simply, wrong:
Government insurance will kill private insurance
As is the Reason writer he also cites, while omitting this paragraph:
…The best result of creating a parallel public insurance scheme is that the United States would end up with an explicit two-tier medical system in which privately insured Americans have better access to better medical care. Such two-tier health care systems already exist in countries with national health care schemes such as the United Kingdom and Germany. In the United Kingdom, more and more Britons are opting for private health insurance instead of remaining with that country’s National Health Service. Privately insured Americans would get higher quality health care, but because the market for medical innovation would be smaller, everybody will get worse care than they would otherwise have received had most health care not been nationalized…
That is carefully crafted double talk, which, unsurprisingly, manages to double back and inadvertently contradict itself. In fact, it is at fundamental odds with Mr Morrissey’s and that Reason writer’s base assertion. How so?
For a decade, yours truly has had regular, first-hand experience of the workings of the British National Health Service. American conservatives who ignorantly “run against” the NHS are irritating. Also, as the Wife once pointed out, the endless intellectual chicanery undertaken to try to make Britain look like some sort of health care “banana republic” when it most definitely is not, is tiresome in the extreme.
Yes, private insurance is all over the place here in “single-payer” Britain. (As if that is now suddenly, to American conservatives, a bad thing?) Curiously, though, in choosing to go private, those Britons (usually the far more well-off, by the way) are engaging in precisely the exercise of personal “choice” conservatives claim to wish to “preserve” for Americans. Also, those Britons are clearly taking advantage of their ability to get “better care” based on their better ability to pay.
Don’t sound too “socialized” that. In fact, it is socialists here who roundly forever criticize private for creating a “two-tier” health culture in which some are getting “better [private] care.” Such immediately undermines the argument that under “single payer” in which private coverage exists (meaning Britain, not Cuba or North Korea), that everyone is forced into “worse care.”
Moreover, the NHS is now over 60 years old, so if we accept at face value that public coverage automatically “will kill off” private, there by now most certainly should be NO private of any consequence in the U.K., not a growing amount. Interestingly also, private is often used to subsidize the public, as even the NHS happily admits:
…Singer Sophie Ellis-Bextor opened The Kensington Wing – the newly expanded and revamped private maternity unit at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital – during the hospital’s annual Open Day on Saturday 9 May…
…All profits from The Kensington Wing are reinvested in the hospital so that the NHS benefits directly from the private maternity unit.
In addition, the claim that “single payer” in itself undermines “innovation” holds no water given that never microphone shy U.K. doctors are overwhelmingly in favor of the NHS, and would be among the first to cite precisely that failing were it worth citing.
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Actually, what we seem to have here is less a cogent refutation of public v. private, than yet more wearying evidence some American conservatives remain adamantly determined to avoid confronting the obvious. But that obstinacy does not alter the reality that American public opinion has been gradually shifting over the last 20 years: for a variety a reasons too numerous to mention here, health care is increasingly seen less as a business and more as a social obligation. As it is here in Britain.
And as is public education. However, before immediately attacking public education as conservatives are often so quick to do, consider this. Conservative pundits regularly extol Thomas Jefferson; and educationally, Mr Jefferson was so thoroughly well-educated pre-public education that he enjoyed the likes of Thucydides in the Athenian’s original Greek. Simultaneously, however, the mass of the people who worked Mr Jefferson’s estate and brought his dinner up from his kitchen could barely read. Or couldn’t read, period.
Conservatives often appear to imagine themselves as having been Mr Jefferson, rather than grasping fully the more likely historical probability that they would far more probably have been those who maintained his roundabouts. But any “two tier” educational system that has emerged in the last 200 years has also led to an America in which most now actually can read, and some few still can read ancient Greek just like Mr Jefferson. Owing to educational “reforms” that helped bring this world about, are conservatives actually seriously attempting to make the argument that that public education was a grave policy error because, functioning alongside still private education, it led to education they suddenly now disparage as being “two-tier?”
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If so, conservatism is in deeper trouble than we had thought possible. For isn’t it socialists, incidentally, who aim for “one-tier”: shared poverty? And while we are (yet again) on this subject, are we conservatives so actually fearful Americans might learn a few other facts? When will we ever be able to overcome the ideological illiteracy, in order to be able adequately to confront the real socialists?
Conservatives correctly distrust red flag wavers; give yours truly the world of Burke over Thomas Paine any day of the week. And as Burke understood, embracing reform is inescapable. Indeed, what happened to paying close attention to a “changing” world while keeping seats at the table, and striving to conserve what has worked well while helping facilitate required “changes” that also actually work? Is that not what conservatism is about?
When did it become a gathering of 18th century-idolizing fantasists in which the club members recline under the apple tree, swapping tales of those bygone “good ol’ days” of “rugged individualist, manly” revolutionary New Hampshire? Conservatives must force themselves to be able to discern the vital difference. Doing so is not always easy, true, but the bottom line is if we conservatives fail to heed properly what the public wants, for a long time to come most of the public may well decide it doesn’t want us.



If government healthcare is so great then why do so many in the UK purchase private insurance?
Here in the US the problem lies with the fact the majority of us CAN only get our health insurance from our employers
The core problem in the States is precisely that there needs to be a way people can get affordable coverage absent an employer group plan. As we know, owing to costs, we increasingly see employers retreating from providing it. That’s the gap the NHS fills here.
Most people in Britain don’t buy private health insurance because they can’t afford it any more than people, off their own backs, can afford it in the U.S. But no matter how much money you have or don’t have, you don’t have to buy health insurance in Britain if you don’t want to. You get a base coverage merely by existing and residing here.
Some people, though, can either afford more than that “lowest common denominator” and choose to pay for it themselves or, usually through an employer as in the States, are able to have private. Private does, as we know, generally provide “better” care in most circumstances, including treatment in a smaller facility (as most private hospitals are small). So that “choice” exists here as certainly as it always will in the States. There is simply no way to take “money” out of healthcare: those with more can always get “better.”
What conservatives are missing in the States is how to address the growing desire on the part of millions of Americans that there be a “lowest common denominator”: a way Americans can get affordable coverage without getting it through an employer plan. Just as public education provides a “common denominator”: Americans do not get their children educated through an “educational plan” provided as a fringe benefit by their employer.
Britain proves you can have both private and public, and they can exist side by side. Don’t get me wrong: everyone knows the NHS is not perfect. But the constant bashing of the NHS from conservatives in the States merely demonstrates how little they know of the NHS. Almost no one in Britain — conservatives included — would dismantle the NHS even if they had the chance. That tells us a great deal.
So much of this argument depends on circumstance, it’s hard to reply. Of the 43 million said to be sans health-care, how many are illegal aliens, and those who could afford insurance but don’t pay for it? Age plays a role, with the younger often foregoing insurance as I did for many years. Having recently looked into a plan for myself I found the cost to be a reasonable $125.00 a month for private coverage. Those who are disabled, elderly or retired have medicaid, medicare and or worker’s comp. Also, it seems dumb to pay the government to act as a middleman taking it’s own cut of the proposed funds just to give it back to those who need it. It has been said that what people really need is catastrophic coverage for major problems, not for the 5-6 visits a year that most people go to the doctors.
That’s where we need to find ourselves: in a position where a family can find affordable coverage that is not a third or more of their monthly income. If that were normally the case, there would be no call for government to intervene.
My underlying argument is the fundamental wrongheadedness of too many conservatives in asserting that the health coverage issue is somehow trivial. The views of what seem a majority of the electorate that it is not are by definition not trivial. They must be taken seriously.
Scare tactics and attempts at misinformation are not going to win conservatives any friends. We don’t want to get caught on the wrong side here. We need to make sure whatever is done is done properly.
Those conservatives who seem cavalier about the lack of affordable coverage do point out some very compelling arguments for opposing government-run health care as “pak” has noted below. I agree with you that anyone who rejects the problem out of hand is being shortsighted as well as indifferent to people’s needs. Thanks for the response!
I don’t want to pay for nationalized health care in the US; period. I disagree with the concept and it’ll really annoy me if I’m forced to pay for yet another form of welfare I care nothing about, not to mention having to pay for private health insurance because I wouldn’t take government health care just on principle!
And they wonder why people in the US are angry.
You sound like just the sort of conservative I am imploring. We have to stop and think unemotionally. If it is good enough for Margaret Thatcher, it is certainly good enough for me, and should be for any conservative: we have nothing to fear.
That doesn’t mean we should have an American NHS. But we look likely to soon get run over on this one anyway. Some form of “universal health cover” is coming to America. As did public schools. If we conservatives are not at the table on this issue, and angrily back off, cry nothing but “socialism” and leave the field to liberals and the far left, heaven knows what bureaucratic mess we may find imposed on America.
We have to offer the public that is trending away from us what that public wants, or we will lose more and more of them. Republican party ID is dropping. If all we do is continue to say “no,” we are going to get electorally sidelined for decades to come, leading to who knows what other ramifications for America. It will not be pretty, that’s for sure.
Sorry for being bitchy, Robert. It’s just that I feel helpless and powerless; trapped between Scylla and Charybdis. In a strange way, I finally understand how the far-left felt about GWB and the Iraq War. You see an abyss coming, you scream warnings as loud as possible and still you go over the edge.
I’ll try to be more pragmatic, but the US government has a really bad record for managing programs legislated from good intentions. And you know exactly which path is paved with good intentions.
Friends and regulars are allowed to be bitchy. (What the Wife hears out of me is rarely on this blog.) Even “non-friends” if it’s constructive. We are allowed to disagree, Lord knows. I just think we have to be smarter in dealing with this particular issue.
Conservatives have a lot to offer. We have to offer it. We can stop the country going over the abyss if we act smartly. If we don’t, we’ll go over the abyss with everyone else.
‘Of the 43 million said to be sans health-care, how many are illegal aliens, and those who could afford insurance but don’t pay for it?”
The Carpe Diem blog posted some interesting information on June 17th about the uninsured
“According to this Census Bureau report “Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2007″ (most recent data available), there were 45.6 million uninsured Americans in 2007. The chart above shows the household income levels of those 45.6 million uninsured Americans. ”
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/06/almost-4-out-of-10-uninsured-households.html
“The core problem in the States is precisely that there needs to be a way people can get affordable coverage absent an employer group plan. As we know, owing to costs, we increasingly see employers retreating from providing it. That’s the gap the NHS fills here.”
and yet we are able to purchase home, fire, malpractice, auto, whatever insurance without have the government enter the market place. Why not let health insurance be sold like auto insurance. right now states have imposed all sorts of requirements on health insurers ie what they must cover. This would be like the state saying okay State Farm, AllState, whomever not only must you offer collision and liability, but you must also cover tire rotations, oil changes, lube jobs, wiper replacement, reupholstering, and more. People make an informed choice about the auto insurance they have. Currently I drive a 1997 SUV worth about $3K. If I’m in an accident the insurer will total the vehicle as it isn’t worth repairing OR i can buy the car from the insurer and pay out of pocket for the repairs. this happened to me several years ago with another car that was in accident.
now the way I see it here in the US the solution would be the establishment of health savings accounts, individuals buy the amount of health insurance they think they need. the older you get the higher the deductible, but your deductible is paid from the HSA which the individual owns, uses it to pay for all medical expenses up to a certain amount. now this account will grow over time imagine what it would be like if you started it at age 18, now you are 65 and facing heart surgery. you can cover your deductible from the HSA.
Insurance is nothing more than legalized gambling. the insurer is a bookie they take your bet based upon a variety of factors. They may not take you bet if your deductible is too low, offer the right type of deductible and they’ll take the bet because you have skin in the game.
we already have a form of NHS in the states. its called Medicare/Medicaid. maybe the government needs to focus on those programs first as they currently aren’t cost effective
Yes, interest groups and lawyers have been adding on ever more conditions for coverage driving up the cost for all. For example, alcohol and drug addiction as well as infertility treatments which most of us will never use.
here is another blog posting from Carpe Diem that covers the issue of affordable insurance
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/06/want-health-insurance-go-out-and-buy-it.html
“Many Americans are uninsured by choice,” wrote Dr. David Gratzer in his book “The Cure: How Capitalism Can Save American Health Care.” Gratzer cited a study of the “non-poor uninsured” from the California HealthCare Foundation. “Why the lack of insurance (among people who own homes and computers)?” Gratzer asks. “One clue is that 60% reported being in excellent health or very good health.”
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=479724